The Africa Israel Connection & The Inherent Power of Truth: EP 06 with Ashriel Moore, Ambassador and Spokesperson

In this conversation, we get into the history of the Hebrew Israelites, the untold story of the African Slave Trade, and a unique first person perspective on the current Hamas Israel war.

Ashriel Moore is  the ambassador to the Middle East for the African diaspora collective, an active voice on social media, and the spokesperson for the fascinating community in which he grew up - The African Hebrew Israelite Community in Dimona, Israel.

The Hebrew Israelite community is home to the largest concentration of African Americans anywhere outside of the United States; it is spiritually grounded, vegan, and quite unique  - a community that has been the subject of controversy in Israel for decades. 

Even in light of this controversy, Ashriel Moore is committed to building bridges and speaking up on behalf of Israel in the global conversations. In this episode, you'll hear why.

Connect with Ashriel:
https://www.instagram.com/ashrielmoore/

Todays episode is hosted by Dr. Azi Jankovic. Azi is an American-Israeli educator,  advocate, and co-founder of HumanityPOV. 

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Transcript

Shure MV7-12: 0:00

Welcome to the humanity POV podcast. You're going to hear from a diverse array of morally courageous voices who understand that true humanitarianism is not selective. Together, we can amplify these voices for progress and shed light. On solutions to the issues. That affect all of us. Thank you so much for being here now, let's get started. My name is Dr. Ozzie Jankovic. I'm an educator. And I'll be hosting the first series of episodes.

0:33

Welcome to the podcast today you were in for such a treat. We're going to be having a conversation with Ashley Elmore. It is an educational and enlightening conversation. Austria is not only the ambassador to the middle east for the African diaspora collective. He's also an active voice online. And he's a spokesperson for a fascinating community. It's the community in which he grew up the African Hebrew Israelite community in Dimona. Often misunderstood. This community has the largest concentration of African-Americans anywhere outside of the United States. It is grounded in spirituality. It is a hundred percent begin. And a unique community that has been the subject of controversy for decades. In spite of the controversy, Austria is committed to building bridges. In society. And to speaking up on behalf of not only his community, but the country at large. In our conversation, we're going to get into the history of the Hebrew Israelites. The untold story of the African slave trade and their connection to the land of Israel. And Austria has unique perspective on the current Hamas, Israel war, and so much more. Let's get into it. The first question that I had for Israel today. Is to share with us a bit about this community. And how it is commonly understood.

Ashriel: 2:00

As a matter of fact some people haven't heard about the community. And when they come and they experience this, it's I've been missing this all of my life. Where have I been that I didn't know about the existence of such a community like this in Israel? And we're talking about the Village of Peace, right? The Village of Peace, the Dimona community of African Hebrew Israelites, that by the way is the largest concentration of African Americans in anywhere in the world outside of America. The largest concentration of vegans in any place in the world, together. And one of the communities that have contributed so much in every area possible to the development of Israel, to the strengthening of Israel, since 1969 and going forward. And now we're in 2024. But people are not aware of that because we haven't been working so, so much on PR. But we've been just surviving, and that, that survival mode has caused us to do things that for, the average person is out of the ordinary. Because who would have been thinking about veganism in the 1970s? Part of the reason why we were thinking about 1970s was because we needed to do whatever is necessary for us to be able to sustain ourselves and not be dependent on other people from the outside. Because we didn't have the financial capabilities, we didn't have legal status in Israel, and so whatever we needed to do, we needed to do for ourselves internally. Which means also to grow our own foods. So if we needed to grow our own foods, and we needed to eat from the land directly, opposed to needing to go out and to buy things from the outside and risking being deported out of Israel, then we did that.

Azi: 3:43

let's go back a little ways to your childhood You were born in the 90s.

Ashriel: 3:49

1991.

Azi: 3:50

What did your childhood look like?

Ashriel: 3:52

I think it had to be one of the most extraordinary experiences for any child because growing up in a community where you are part of a family of 2, 000 people, where you call everyone who's older than you uncle. and big brother and big sister. And everybody's looking out for everybody. And everybody's experiencing the same experiences, so we understand each other better than anybody else could be able to understand us. It made it so much easier for me to relate to the life that we were living in DeMona in a community that wasn't necessarily connected to all the other communities on the outside. And this was just a survival mechanism that we had to put in place for ourselves because of, like I said, the experiences that we had beforehand. Growing up in an environment of a family of so many different people. you weren't even aware of the challenges that you were faced with as a person who is born and raised into a community like the African Hebrews of that community in Dimona, opposed to the challenges on the outside, because all I knew was what I experienced internally. And it was a beautiful thing because say, for example, you have holy days. Where you have a family of about 40 people at the table and then you leave out and you have a communal Celebration with everybody all together. You go to the same school from Kindergarten all the way to 12th grade with the same people all of your life You live right next door to the same people for 20 and 30 years You experience the same people All of you are like, you don't know anything else, almost. And it was so incredible to a point where, my mother, she didn't have legal status in Israel, unfortunately. And my father passed away at a very early age. I was 14 years old and he passed away. I already heard that. And we were 15 siblings. my mother had to be the one who was to look out for the entire family. You were 14 years old. I was 14

Azi: 6:09

years old. Your father passed tragically. And your mother was left to single parent

Ashriel: 6:15

To single parent 15 children, but not only to single parent 15 children, my father, he was one of the leaders in the community. And part of his job was to actually oversee one of our branches outside of Israel in Ghana. So he, he didn't spend a lot of time in Israel. So I didn't spend a lot of time with him anyways in Israel. and then my mother, because she was gone all the time, because she was trying to look out for the entire family while he was on his missions, I didn't see her so Often. I have, I have twin sisters, right? Who, they're the ones who raised me, actually. My mother wasn't there as often as I would have liked because of the hardships that we experienced. And she had to do what she needed to do in order to make sure that we don't need for anything. Survive. She had to do what she had to do for us to survive. And we survived. and it's beautiful looking back on it now today, because those type of experiences, those experiences actually shape the character of a person. When you go through such challenges, where you realize that you're actually able to cope way better, and way more than what you actually expected. Because you, you were then exposed to parts of yourself that you didn't even know existed. And you wouldn't even have known that they existed. Had you not had to experience what you experienced and I'm thankful. I'm very thankful for those experiences Although there were some challenging experiences, but I'm very thankful for because now I realize what I'm able to how to say what I'm made of You realize what you're made of you realize that you're able to actually deal in situations where for the average person It's like how did you do it? But for us it's like I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of the other people also from my community that came through a lot of what we came through and experienced a lot of what we experienced and we're still standing

Azi: 8:06

strong today. Yeah, it's interesting, Ashriel because what you're sharing is that in fact the life in DeMona Was wrought with challenges.

Ashriel: 8:16

Look When the pioneers of our community arrived to Israel in 1969, they were accepted openly, with open arms, as part of the new state that had been built just 18 years prior that was open for anybody who had any type of connection to the House of Israel who wanted to return back home. And us being part of that diaspora that were, that found ourselves in North Africa and North America and South America and the Isles of the Caribbean because we were taken there against our will and enslaved. And after we had that opportunity once again to connect to our roots in the 1800s, then in the 1960s, when there was a renaissance of what they called Black Power during that period of time, where we wanted to take our own power once again back into our own hands, and not allow other people to dictate for us who we are, who we weren't, what we aren't, what we can do, what we can't do. Because that's how it's been for so long, then we decided it was time for us to return back home. So

Azi: 9:23

let's get into this a little bit more for anyone who doesn't, hasn't heard this story. Where does this story start?

Ashriel: 9:31

The, this we can, go all the way back to Actually, to the Assyrian, invasion of Israel in 1721, in 721 B. C., but I'll go back as far as 2, 000 years ago, since that's, a period of time where people could be able to actually connect to.

Azi: 9:47

I want to understand this community. because you go online and you're looking for Hebrew Israelites and you get to Wikipedia and it's all very confusing. So let's get into it, let's talk about this community. So let's get into it. Take me back in time.

Ashriel: 10:04

So let's go we'll go back to a time, period where Most of us can be able to connect to, because most of the time when you go too far back, people lose count and they can't really follow along. So we'll go back to 70 A. D. You had the destruction of Jerusalem. You had the war between 66 to 70 A. D. Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. And you had Israelite tribes who had started fleeing Israel. A significant amount of them. Others settled in North Africa. Others continued to migrate from North Africa to Northwest Africa and then settled in western, in the western portion of Africa on the Niger River. Then you had others who continued down to South Africa and you had those who just stayed in that entire area in northeastern Africa, so in Egypt and then go down to Ethiopia and others. At about 632, A. D. You had then the, what you called Muhammadians then, but today they're known as Muslims, who began the invasion also of North Africa and the entire area of Asia, and what, they would call today, The, the Arab conquests. And so a significant amount of the people who was in these regions, they were either forced to convert to Islam or They were chased out or they were killed. So a significant amount of us also fled from where we were in Central Africa and North Africa over down to West Africa and settled on you know that the West African Coast. And when we're

Azi: 11:44

talking about this conquest, it was something extremely

Ashriel: 11:49

violent. It was extremely violent. Extremely violent. and not only was it violent, It was so significant that it still holds roots today. The entire North Africa is still part of the Arab world since 632 A. D. That's how strong it was. All of the countries, almost, in Asia, or West Asia, are still part of the Arab world, until Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, all these countries, they have native peoples to these lands. They have their own cultures, their own traditions, their own customs and everything. But they were just overtaken by the Muslims at that point and so still until today they're still overtaken now when we fled to West Africa We settled in areas that we believe that we were safety in right, but we didn't integrate with the other Native tribes in West Africa. We remained as we were. We just recreated communities there. And when you say we I'm talking about Children of Israel, Israelites, those who ended up in America and enslaved. Okay. up until the 15th century, where you had at about 1442 the Portuguese, they began to go up and down the coast of West Africa, looking for a route all the way over to, to, to India and to the east. This was the first time that they had ever. African people. They settled on the coast. Then they started the trade of diamonds and gold. They realized there was a lot of gold in this area and they started basically, And then secondly, they created strife between the various communities causing there to be enmity to allow certain communities then to support them and their conquest and their desire to, To, take over these, rigs and, These gold mines and. To allow them the opportunity now to be able to, extract these natural resources in a way where they wouldn't have to pay for them.

Azi: 14:16

essentially, coming over again. we're not talking about a pleasant experience here. No. This is conquest. Yes. This is stealing. Yes, ma'am. This is murder, all forms of violence. And then what happened?

Ashriel: 14:33

And then they realized also that not only did they have natural resources in the ground, they realized that they could actually make usage of these people now as well for cheap labor or for free labor. They signed packs with local chiefs and kings where these local chiefs and kings will sell them. People who are not native to the area, right? Foreigners, who, Israelites, we were foreigners. We, came to this area. other people who had been prisoners of war. They will sell these people to the Portuguese and to the Dutch in exchange for European goods. Rum and gunpowder and all of these things. And then that's where the transatlantic slave trade began that brought hundreds of millions of African people and from those hundreds of millions, we know in accordance with a lot of the information that has been provided to us, that 30 percent of those people were actually taken from what was called the Bight of Biafra in Nigeria, the Bight of Biafra in Nigeria, was home to Israelite tribes who would be known as Ebo. These Israelite tribes still exist there until this very day. They established there what they called an alternative to Israel. They continue to hold on to the customs, to the traditions of the Ancient Israelites from the destruction of the first temple.

Azi: 16:11

So these are people who, left in 586 BCE.

Ashriel: 16:15

These are people who left in 586 BCE. Who were expelled again. 586 BCE. that was the destruction of the first temple. The second temple was in 70 AD. So throughout that period of time you had people who had migrated and who had settled and who continued to hold on to those traditions. They continued on with those traditions with, just as they knew them from the past. And so the people who were taken into America, 30 percent of those people were actually Israelites. And

Azi: 16:43

30 percent of the Africans who were taken into America were Israelites. Were Israelites. And you said the number 100 million.

Ashriel: 16:53

There were 100 million people on those passages from 1442 up until approximately 1830.

Azi: 17:02

A hundred million people over the course of 400 years. Yes. And one third. One third. 33 million people. Yes, ma'am. Descended from Israel. Yes, ma'am.

Ashriel: 17:15

Most of them kept the Hebrew traditions in West Africa, but when they were taken to America and enslaved, they were then forced to convert, first of all, to Christianity. There's, a book by, This guy named, Colcock Jones, where he describes, and it was in 1863 he wrote this book, or 1865, where it is, the name of the book is The Religious Instructions of the Negroes in America. What he describes there is the process of causing those people who were enslaved to become Christians. There was a process, the first part of the process was, the first part of the process was that they would on, on Saturdays, not on Sunday now, on Saturdays, they would convene everybody together because that was the day of rest, because that was the day of rest that the people, majority of the people were there, one third of the people. New from the past. Because

Azi: 18:25

they had been observing the Sabbath. The

Ashriel: 18:27

Sabbath as a day of rest.

Azi: 18:29

The seventh day, which is Saturday.

Ashriel: 18:31

They had been observing that. And part of those instructions were that on Saturdays, they would then begin teaching them information from the Bible in regards to Christianity. And how would they do it? Majority of them didn't speak English. A significant of them actually still spoke Semitic languages. And so the people had a hard time with communicating with them. The Europeans had a hard time communicating with them. So what they would do is they would then choose from within the pack some who they considered progressive people who caught on to languages so they would teach them English then they would teach them all of the Tenets from the Bible that they wanted them to focus on and to pass it on to other slaves. And then they would allow them then to be the ones who pass on that information to the slaves. Not the Europeans, but it was other slaves who passed on that information to the slaves. They made them the leaders. They made them the only ones who were able to read and write. And by the way, it was punishable by death if you were caught reading or writing. So majority of the slaves couldn't read or write. That leaves or left an opening for that void to be filled with other information that wasn't necessarily connected to their identity. And there's, there's a website that's called Slave Voyages that they have a listing of approximately 100, 000 names of slaves who were taken from Africa to America. And if you go through those listings, you would be able to see that a significant amount of those names And what they did was they changed the name from the Hebraic names to European names. Had no connection at all. For example, I saw a name that, or a lot of names that actually ended with L or Y. And then they changed, if you ever watched the movie Roots, or, or Shaka Zulu, they spoke, or they dealt with people's names and the importance of changing those names, and they would beat a person near death until he would say that his name is something else now. And there was a person whose name was They beat him to death almost until he finally accepted the name of Toby. This was a reality for those people. In America. And for years, they were Stripped of culture. Stripped of their books. Stripped of their names. Stripped of their identities.

Azi: 21:21

We are talking about people who were enslaved in

Ashriel: 21:25

every single way. Every single way. Mentally. Physically. Spiritually. Emotionally. Totally disconnected from their foundation, uprooted and planted somewhere else where they have no idea who they are, what they are, and even still until this very day, the world still has not even managed to understand who are the people The majority of the people who you call African Americans, there's no other people on this planet and no place else that has a connection to two continents. And that's it. No, no country, no African American. What is that? But that came from the slave masters who initially began, and they wanted to just identify those, the Africans, based on where they were taking them. So you had African Europeans, those who ended up in Europe and remained there. And you had the, African Caribbeans, those who were taken to the Caribbeans and remained there. Then you had the African Americans who were taken to North America and remained there. Taken against their will. 400 years of experience in this. Now, In 1863, you had the Emancipation Proclamation.

Azi: 22:41

when you think about this period of history. When you talk about it, how do you feel?

Ashriel: 22:49

It's mixed feelings. Because to know that this is what my ancestors experienced, and I'm not really talking about it from a far off point, because my great, grandmother, she was a slave in America. She was a slave in Mississippi. That's a family tie to people who were actually there, who experienced that. Everybody has some type of connection to that, especially people who are African American today. They got to America somehow. They were most likely forcibly, which means that most likely, everybody who's there who didn't migrate to there, then their parents, grandparents, great ancestors were slaves. And It wasn't just the slavery, Ozzy. It wasn't just the slavery to free labor. It was the maiming. It was the pillaging. It was the, murdering. It was considering these people as animals. It was having no regard for human life. It was not caring at all. families. It was looking at a crying mother with a baby in her womb and slicing it open and stumping the baby because you wanted to inflict fear on everybody else who's around. And people don't realize how terrible it was. This is the only way where you could actually break a people down so low by doing such inhumane things to them. And you burn living human beings alive. You go and you to the middle of the city center and you hang people which came to be known as strange fruit. That you hang people from trees in the middle of the city. And this was part of people's celebrations.

Azi: 24:59

living in this country right now and knowing the people that want to do that to you and me brings it home.

Ashriel: 25:08

It's a terrible reality. How does that make you feel? I think I'm more empowered now because of that. Because that was an experience that was dedicated, or the purpose of it, was to totally disconnect us from our identity, just like it says in the Bible, in the book of Psalms, the 83rd chapter, that they would seek to destroy us to a point where the name of Israel would be no more in remembrance. Destroy it altogether. And when you see that we managed to rise. Out of the buoyancy of despair, and to once again connect to our culture, our identity, after 400 years of being so far removed away from it. Those songs that the elders were singing out there while they were picking cotton, about, I looked over, Jordan and what did I see coming for to carry me home a band of angels coming after me coming for to come It was Swing low sweet chariot It was a band of angels coming after me coming forward to carry me home You have the songs where they spoke about Canaan's land, about the River Jordan, about, I'm going up to yonder to be with my Lord. These songs were so deeply embedded in the people to a point where they passed them on and that was the only thing that allowed them to just hold on to a piece of that identity of theirs.

Azi: 27:04

slaves singing about the River Jordan in the United States of America, that did not come from a

Ashriel: 27:10

Christian Oh, no. That was something that was deeply embedded in them. Because there were no Christian songs from European Christians, they were talking about going back to Canaan's land. There were no Christian songs like those. Christians didn't speak about going back to Because They had never been there. Constantine made Christianity the religion of Rome in the the, the third century, but beforehand, the people who were actually following what you would call Christianity prior to that were people who were in Israel, were people who were following a person who was called Yeshua, the son of Joseph and Mary. But it happened here. It was here. It was the person who was born in Bethlehem. It was a person who walked the Galilee. It happened here. It was right here. And so anybody who come from that genealogy would be able to then sing about going back to that place. But if you came from Rome, you're not going to be singing about going back to Jerusalem. Because we are part of Israel, then for us, Israel is the center of our identity. Jerusalem is the center of our identity, because this is the where our civilization was developed.

Azi: 28:44

we are in Israel, and I'm so curious to hear more about your culture. I have yet to visit Dimona. I think most people in Israel have yet to properly experience Dimona. How would you describe the culture that you grew up in? What are some of the customs?

Ashriel: 29:03

Everything was based on the biblical tenets of the Torah. And you would then be able to realize, first of all, that we did keep all the holy days as is. Yom Kippur, Passover, and we kept them in accordance to how it was prescribed for us in the Bible. for us, for example, Rosh Hashanah has always been in Aleph B'Nisan, not Aleph B'tishoi.

Azi: 29:34

your, the New Year is celebrated in the

Ashriel: 29:36

spring. In the spring. when everything is blossoming, when everything else is, is renewing, then We're also renewing. The, earth is renewing, so we're in harmony with the earth cycle and what's written for us in the Bible from, Our, great people.

Azi: 29:54

That's the new year

Ashriel: 29:55

for us. That's been celebrated. Yes, ma'am. For

Azi: 29:59

over 2, 000, 3,

Ashriel: 30:01

000 years. That's the new year.

Azi: 30:03

What is, how do you celebrate?

Ashriel: 30:04

It's a family celebration. everybody come together. You have music, you have food, you have song and dance, Is, really just a dedication that we have to God and to his creation, that we are celebrating together the opportunity once again to be here, to experience this new growth. and our bodies are so filled with A renewing spirit that we're going into this new year, understanding that a lot of things that we took from last year, that's where they're going to stay in

Azi: 30:44

last year. That's where they're going to stay, and we are moving forward. We're going forward. So are there traditions similar to the Rosh Hashanah that's celebrated in the end of summer, fall? Are there traditions of repentance, of tshuva, are there any similar

Ashriel: 31:01

So you have the, spiritual new year where, or the physical new year, where yes we do emphasize that spiritual renewal, but the tshuva is usually during a period of, Yom Kippur, Between, what we would call the memorial, remembrance of the Torah, and Yom Kippur, which would be Aleph B'tishrei. And the 10th of Tishrei, those nine days in between, that's the period of time for us to once again, not go through a process of Chuva, but to just reflect on that, because for us, a process of Chuva is all year around. You don't wait to a period of time where I'm sorry that I did something to you seven months ago, and I'm coming to you now because of Siyom Kipur to say, I'm sorry. We try, at the least, to make sure that we don't allow a significant amount of time to go by before we could make amends with our brother or our sister. Okay, Yom Kippur is finished now, so what do you do? Go back to what you were doing beforehand, and then when Yom Kippur comes back around and you'll be able to come back and apologize again. it is a

Azi: 32:15

really common spiritual tradition in the Judaic culture. To be constantly returning to our true selves, constantly striving.

Ashriel: 32:31

And that's what we do. So it's not necessarily a tradition for us. It's just part of our lifestyle. There's certain, traditional things that we take on from the Bible, but for us, it's not just about tradition because too many people are caught up in tradition and customs, and they remove themselves from the spiritual understanding of things. So you believe that just because you fulfill a tradition, then you've done your part.

Azi: 32:58

For an

Ashriel: 32:59

example, there are some people who wouldn't fast on Yom, or who would, who fast on Yom Kippur. What is the purpose of you fasting? Because they said so. But what is the purpose of you fasting? I can understand other people fasting because, I don't know, maybe they want to really allow their bodies to revitalize. Some people want to really reflect on some other things. But why are you fasting? Most people don't know why they're fasting because it's just a tradition. So if it's just a tradition but it doesn't do anything for mentally and spiritually, then you can stop doing that tradition. That's not even a problem at all. You can stop because it doesn't have a deeper meaning for you.

Azi: 33:40

So you have found that within your community, there's a focus on intention. Absolutely.

Ashriel: 33:45

Intentionality. Absolutely. We do things with a purpose. We do them with a purpose and with an intention behind them to Come out on the other side a better person, a greater brother, a greater sister, a more understanding, a more compassionate person. Someone who has a deeper understanding about what they did in the past so that you wouldn't have to ask for forgiveness for the same thing or something similar again because you understood where you were wrong.

Azi: 34:19

It sounds like there's a really big emphasis on personal growth. Absolutely.

Ashriel: 34:24

We emphasize these things because we really believe them. And so because we believe what we're doing, and because we've, proven them to be true, then we do them with joy. For example, people who go to work, And you know you're going to get paid at the end. You do that work because you know that you're going to get that compensation. You're not guessing it at the end of the month. You may get paid, you may not get paid. You just come into work and let's see what they do this time. No, You know that you're going to get that compensation. So we know that Doing right would give you a positive outcome. We know this. And so we emphasize these things because we want to get those blessings. And we don't do them to get the blessings, but we do them because we understand what is the compensation of doing right. Of doing good. Of being a good human being. Of being a good person. And we have a saying in the community where truth has the inherent power to produce the promised effects.

Azi: 35:27

Truth has the inherent power to produce the promised effects. I'm listening to every word you're saying. And I feel more than anything that having been raised with a Jewish spiritual tradition, we have everything in common.

Ashriel: 35:43

Everything. I think so as well. Yeah. I think so. And that's the only way you can be able to really sit down and connect to things. I believe that even as universal people who were born and raised and created. and brought into this world and put on this earth for a purpose and for a cause. The moment we actually understand what our purpose and our cause is, it really doesn't necessarily matter what we call our faith. What matters is how we connect to that higher power. Who has dictated how this earth operates even before we were thought of.

Azi: 36:22

Meaning, to get philosophical, it's not about necessarily what we call ourselves. It's about how we operate in this universe.

Ashriel: 36:31

It's about how we operate in the universe.

Azi: 36:33

Is there a delineation between good people, bad people?

Ashriel: 36:38

would say, how would I determine? Because even good people do bad things at times. I would say that the intention in your heart and why, for example, was King David, the eye of God's eye, although you know some of the devastating things that he did. We, know. That

Azi: 36:58

period was a rot with violence.

Ashriel: 37:00

He, had someone killed and then took his wife and But nobody really speaks about these, type of things, but that was something terrible that was done. But what did he do? He, first of all, afflicted his soul. He asked for forgiveness and then he still had to bear the consequences, which means he had children who, he had a child, Baba Chava, yes. Or no, that I think that child died didn't even come in into being, and he had a child from other people. But he experienced, he had to go through that process. He was able to understand that I need to humble myself. I've done wrong. Not to say he was a bad person, but he done wrong. And when people do wrong and you're able to recognize it and you're able to, Apologize for it and to try to reconcile those differences that makes a good person that not that you don't make mistakes But did when you do make mistakes you realize that you've made a mistake and you don't have a problem at all With reconciling that mistake that you made, it's

Azi: 38:01

I think it's so fascinating how little most of us know about, your community and your culture and yet, every single time we talk about the values and we grew up on two different continents and we can trace our ancestry to two other continents and yet we have these core values. that are so the same.

Ashriel: 38:32

Before the 16th century, there was the idea that all men and women, originate from Adam and Eve. Yeah.

Azi: 38:43

In Kabbalah. It's that we all came from

Ashriel: 38:46

one v. From one.

Azi: 38:47

Yeah. That's what we are all souls who ever were, who are whoever will be, are one

Ashriel: 38:55

come from one source, one source. Because Chava came from Adam as well. But only later on when there was an intention to change that and say, okay, everybody didn't come from one source. some people came from the sons of Ham, they were cursed. Some people came from the sons of Japheth. Some people came from the sons of Shem.

Azi: 39:18

And when you're talking about the 1600s, who exactly and how did they come up with this idea, change it?

Ashriel: 39:24

There were anthropologists. part of this plot to take everything that was in the Bible to push people of African descent out of it. And to justify slavery was that they had to first of all justify it through using the Bible in some way, shape, or form, because the majority of the people who were carrying out these diabolical things were Christians. And Portugal was a Christian country, Spain was a Christian country, Pope, Leo the 10th, he signed off on it without a problem to allow them to continue Christianity. And as a matter of fact, I don't even know if but when in 1514 The Pope said that we don't want anybody, any of these European countries involving themselves in the safe trade because then that'll become problematic for those two countries who are already there, Spain and Europe, because the, church was benefiting from what they were doing in Africa. They didn't want any other European countries to get involved. But then three years later, when they were fighting for it, These other European countries wanted to get involved as well because they understood the monetary contributions they can be able to make. from the natural resources and from the human resources of African people, free labor. in 1517, that was the main catalyst for the Protestants breaking off from the Roman Catholic Church so that they can be able to involve themselves in the, slave trade. The main

Azi: 40:57

catalyst for the Protestants breaking away. to be involved in the slave

Ashriel: 41:03

trade? Yes. They wanted a part of it, and the only way that they can be able to do so was that they had to pull away from the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church, determined that only Spain and Portugal would be the, ones who would be able to continue to operate there.

Azi: 41:19

the Protestants changed the Bible?

Ashriel: 41:25

After they pulled away from the church Right from the Roman Catholic Church. They built their own denominations And then they started and then they involved themselves in the slave trade So that's what all the other countries started getting involved in the 1500s Germany and England and the Dutch and all this is when they after they pulled away from the church. Now, not only was that the main catalyst, but they realized that there, because the people who were coming into, they were bringing a lot of these slaves from Africa into Europe. And they were telling these people that they were telling the European people that these people. are cursed and that they are less civilized and but almost every home in Europe had now had slaves or what they would call domestic workers. And a lot of these people couldn't understand, hold on now, we have these people in our homes and I'm observing them, they don't seem to be As uncivilized as you stand there, where did you get this from? And so that actually caused, in Europe during that period of time, that caused a major rift in conversation around the slave trade about the morality of it as Christians. And so what they had to do then is they had to begin some type of justification for this. And so the first part of justification had to be from the Bible. And so that first part of justification was that they had to now take the, idea of us all coming from one source. Because if we all came from one source, then there's no way in the world that we are less than you are.

Azi: 43:07

So there had to be a way to dehumanize. To dehumanize. Human beings. In order to inflict that level of cruelty, slavery.

Ashriel: 43:18

They were already doing it. They had to now justify it in some way. And that justification came through, first of all, them understanding that we have to use the Bible as a premise. And so that's where they now took the idea of us all coming from one source, to us all coming from three sources. We didn't all come from, Adam now. Now we all came from the sons of Ham. You see how that works? Selective history.

Azi: 43:45

This is a story that literally shaped your history, and it goes back to this time period where there were Christians who were justifying what was happening here. And it's interesting. I want to pause. When we talk about Christians today, we, you and I are safeties at risk because of people who use religion. They use religion. To dehumanize and in order to be violent, in order to conquest and for, absolute evil. And I had a conversation a few weeks ago with Rabbi Leo D. Rabbi D's wife and his two children were murdered on April 7th, 2023 this past year. And he said something really, that stuck with me. He said, The Jews had a violent period in the time of King David, and it's something you brought up today. It's something people don't talk about it. We don't talk about it. We're not proud of it, but it happened. And now we're talking about Christian conquest, violence, slavery, colonialism, you name it. Not pretty. Not pretty at all. Not something to be proud of, but it happened. And here we are in the age of Muslim conquest. And violence and absolute loss of humanity, but he said, we're going to get through that too.

Ashriel: 45:15

We have to get through it. We have to get through it. And I think one of, one of the reasons why it's so important for us as people of African descent here in Israel. To make sure that we have our, voices heard is because we know about these experiences that other people say that they've had. And they try and pull us in because, it's you all know about racism and You know about experiencing colonization and you know about, so I'm, surely you have to support us when we are going on the killing spree of innocent people because this is a natural reaction to experiences that we've had for years. Since the beginning of the war here in Israel, there's been a sentiment amongst Arab peoples that people of African descent who reside here in Israel should support and understand Hamas invasion to Israel. and killing these innocent people and, have sympathy for them opposed to understanding Israel's position because we experienced racism, so they say that this is a race war, so because. This is their plight, that we have experienced oppression, we've experienced colonization, we've experienced racism. So you all have to stand with us and understand that it's, it's perfectly fine to kill so many people, so many innocent people.

Azi: 46:44

We are 137 days into this war that has been the most abhorrent. Acts committed on human beings from all countries of all backgrounds, colors, religions. This was an attack on humanity. And what you're sharing with me is that because you're black, there has been a push of the pro Palestinian narrative. Onto your community?

Ashriel: 47:14

It's not necessarily just on my community, but it's on people of African cent generally. Any, people who are black in Israel. It's you all are expected to support us,

Azi: 47:21

but where is that coming from?

Ashriel: 47:23

it's coming from pro Hamas supporters who are saying that Hamas is a resistance movement. And what are they resisting exactly? They're resisting oppression, they're resisting whatever else. I don't see it like that. And I'm a person of African descent and I know what my people have experienced in every other place in the world, but I don't see what they see. The reason why I don't see what they see the way they see it, is not because the Palestinian people haven't been done right over the years because there are a lot of people, not only Palestinians. even my community hasn't really been, done right. And a lot of other people. and there are some things that needs to change. There's some things that needs to change. I have Palestinian friends in the West Bank and also whose family live in Gaza. So I speak to these people, so I know what they think. I know how they feel. People of African descent, just like me, who is a black person who is in Gaza and who's in the West Bank who say they experience racism and they experience discrimination, they experience This and they don't they're not wanted by the Arabs and they view them as slave. So I know exactly how it is on that end as

Azi: 48:39

well. So your friends who are also black in the PA in Gaza are experiencing racism. Absolutely. What does that look like?

Ashriel: 48:48

In Gaza, you have an entire community that is called Ella B neighborhood. That 1 percent of the Gazan population who's black live in that neighborhood. The people who live there still view them as second class citizens and they still view them as those Slaves who were taken from places like Sudan and brought there to work for the lighter skinned Arabs, they still view them as such, just like Europeans still look down on people of African descent, and there's no difference at all. There's no difference between European conquest and Arab imperialism. There's no difference. at all. The only difference is that some are playing on our sensitive nerve when it comes to things that they believe we should now participate in. when everybody who was residing here becomes a legitimate target just by virtue of us living here, black, white, Arab Israeli, Druze, asylum seeker, that has nothing at all to do with resistance against the government or against the state. If you have a problem with the government or state, Why, do we have to be the ones who are experiencing What, do we do? but you had black people who were killed also on October 7th. You had black people who were killed even beforehand. A member of my community was actually killed in 2002 in a, in an attack of Hamas, who a Hamas member entered a, a wedding hall where they were having a bat mitzvah and just started spraying and killed him. And so we know of these things from up close and personal, I know of people who were actually killed in suicide bombing, suicide attacks, on buses. So I can understand, Hamas. Is not a resistance movement that, that is in favor of the Palestinian people in no way, shape or form. This is an organization that was established for the purpose of being an outpost for the Muslim Brotherhood in this region. They have Muslim Brotherhood outposts in other regions as well. And according to, not from, not actually Israel saying it, but according to what they have written in their charter. They are dedicated to the obliteration of the State of Israel and everybody who reside in here. They are dedicated to implementing their idea of Islam worldwide because they believe everybody is off course. So it's not a matter of just here in Israel. This is something that they have worldwide, and you can look at other affiliates of theirs and other places in the world, like Boko Haram, other, you have so many in Africa right now who are affiliated with Al Qaeda and affiliated with ISIS and, they say so they can be able to, establish the Muslim state. So you're not resistant against anything. Iran is the head of the resistance. What does that resistance mean? That means that you have now, you have an issue with Saudi Arabia, you have an issue with all these other Muslim countries, because you want to be the ultimate hegemonic power in this region. And you want everybody to operate in accordance with how you see fit. they, don't, understand what you understand. No. There's a radical or radicalization of people in so many places in the world And you see it so clearly. But you can't hide behind resistance against, who and against what.

Azi: 52:20

sitting here in Israel, and having this conversation and thinking about the fact that those people, and we're talking about people who have 30 minutes, an hour from us right now, would want to carry out, God forbid, the worst possible acts. Just because we're sitting here, breathing, living. And that somehow, in the name of religion, how is it even possible that people are justifying the most inhumane rape as resistance? It's, it makes absolutely no sense. And that somehow, there will be a push For people who are black to adopt this narrative, somehow justify the most inhumane acts as resistance. But clearly you're not because you have values. You have spiritual values. You have religious values. Our values dictate that is not humane. There's no justification for anything like that. None at all. And yet, we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people around the world now, who are on board.

Ashriel: 53:35

One, because they don't really understand.

Azi: 53:37

The people who are protesting around the world who've never even been here, most of them, what do you think they need to know that they don't know?

Ashriel: 53:47

I think they need to know a lot of things, but I think, first of all, we'll start on their side, what they need to know about where they are, because, for example, it's not possible to walk in the streets and to, for example, in America, and to say, free Palestine from the river to the sea. And talk about colonization, when you have Native Americans who are still in reservations at this very moment, on the grounds that you're living in. You live on a colonized country. You live in a place that 90 percent of the inhabitants were killed through smallpox and a bunch of other diseases and violence and then the rest of the people will put in reservations on the side somewhere and then you establish, your great country on the backs of slaves who you brought from a different country to there. Only about 50 years ago did they even get the right to vote. What are you even talking about? What are you talking about when you live in North Africa and you're talking about North Africa, these North African countries, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Libya. What are you talking about when these places, you call these places part of the Arab world? How? Every one of these countries have their own unique identity. Customs, traditions, culture, but you forced yours on them because you conquered them and you still are there today to this very day. So what are you talking about when you say, now I can understand if we were having this conversation and somebody is speaking to me from some native land somewhere in the world and they was like, okay, it's not right.

Azi: 55:41

And then what?

Ashriel: 55:42

there's some things in history, and we have to talk about them, that happened during the establishment of the state and beforehand, on both ends, that were heinous. That were terrible. That anybody who looks back on those things from today, you won't be happy with that happening. But at the same time, we have generations of people who were born here, who didn't choose to be born here. I didn't choose to be born in Israel. I was just born here, just like other people were born here. So you can't tell me that I'm part of A colonial power or, oppression of other people just by virtue of me living here because you say that I live on someone else's stolen territory. Because then we have to really open up the books and look at the historical annals of this place and then we would be able to just go back a few years and just understand, okay, if we go back before. 1917, the Balfour Declaration. Who, were the ones who were in control? You had the Ottomans. How did the Ottomans gain control? They conquered. Who did they conquer? Not a pretty picture. Not at all. They conquered. But who did they conquer? They conquered the Mamluks. How did the Mamluks gain control? They conquered. Who did they conquer? They conquered the, the Crusades. How did the Crusades gain control? They conquered. conquest. After conquest After conquest. After conquest, Now, this is how these people actually gained control of the land. Because they conquered whoever was here. Now, am I saying that conquering is the right thing to do or nice thing? No, I'm not saying that, but I am saying that if you are looking at it from that prism, then you can't stop at one point. You have to look at the entire history of this region.

Azi: 57:44

Even if people were wronged in this region, even if I'm doing something wrong simply by existing on this land, trying to raise my children with good values, what I've come to believe are good values, even if there's an issue with that. There is never a justification for what just happened. No, it's not. And, that's, to me, that's the distinction. Right now is, it's not about, feeling guilty for being white. Feeling guilty for being anyone or anything. It's not even about, we don't even have to look back in history. We have to be present in this moment. And ask ourselves one question. What does it mean to be a

Ashriel: 58:35

human? That's it. That's it. That's really it. That's really all it comes down to. On the flip side also, you can't look at what's taking place in Gaza and not have some type of sympathy for those people. A significant amount of those people didn't choose to be in a position that they're in.

Azi: 58:55

every time when the war started we would hear so many jets overhead. And we would have missile sirens and we'd, run into the safe room. And I would be in my kitchen I'd be, Making a cup of coffee, making dinner for my kids, and I would hear these loud jets overhead. And honestly, I would think of Gazan mothers. Every single day, listening to those dreads. What if I were a mother in Gaza, and I were trying to cook dinner for my kids right now? If I were a mother in Gaza, I would be without any protection. I wouldn't have a safe room in my home. Because that's not a part of the system, that's not enforced, for anything. All of the resources that could have gone into defending this mother, protecting this mother, have gone toward violence, and conquest, and even using, enslaving that Gozan mother, and those Gozan children, to these ideals that they are just pawns. To the point that they should martyr themselves by suicide in order to conquest. And that pain, to feel the pain for that mother in Gaza, to think about the fact that her child is going to school from the time they're in preschool and learning, killing my daughter, killing my six year old son. Is the purpose of their lives. We cannot stand

Ashriel: 1:00:34

for that. I think that we human beings have become so desensitized, so detached from feelings that we can't recognize the hurt of others because there's no way in the world that people in Gaza could be indoctrinated to a point where they don't realize and understand how So there's, no way in the world that billions of dollars could be going into Gaza for the beautification of Gaza, for building infrastructure for the people, for granting them whatever is necessary for them to be able to live properly in Gaza so that they wouldn't even have the desire to Need to kill other people because they're so busy living Their lives, but then you have leaders who are directing I mean you build tunnels With all these raw materials instead of building homes for people you build rockets with the raw materials that were built for you to be able to construct a good water system in Gaza. You take those things and you build rockets. You take billions of dollars instead of actually investing them in the lives of the people. You put half of it in your pocket. Billions and billions.

Azi: 1:02:02

We're not talking about a few rockets. We are talking about arsenals, of weapons, we are talking about, how many miles, of sophisticated tunnels that were built, and people talk about disproportionality, and if 15, 000 rockets, God forbid, had landed on this country, it would have been the end. It would have been the end. But, what's the difference? The difference is that you can criticize the government here all you want, but the bottom line is. As a country, we have embraced the value of protecting life, defending life, choosing life. Has it been perfect? Has it been perfect? But we, our defense systems have protected us from that. And that is why my sympathy goes, goes to so many people, but when we want to talk about what's happening on that side of the border, again, I imagine being a mother there. First of all, being a mother here. My six year old tells me he wants to leave the country because he doesn't want to have to fight in the army. He knows. He knows it's dangerous. He knows it's scary. And, as an Israeli, we think to ourselves, you're going to have children, God willing, one day, and we don't want our children to go fight. It's the last thing we want. It's the last thing we want. That's the last thing we want is to endanger our children. And yet, I think to myself again, if everyone chose to leave because of that, This is the only home we have. We don't want this war. We don't want to fight. We want to invest every ounce of our being, and we've tried and we've tried and we've tried in cooperation, but we're not dealing, we're not dealing with the Palestinian people. We're dealing with the corrupt global regimes, exactly like you said. that have created outposts in this region for no purpose other than to destroy us, destroy freedom, destroy

Ashriel: 1:03:59

democracy. They want to destabilize the region. That's the purpose. To destabilize the region, to ensure that hegemonic power, to ensure that hegemonic power that Iran is looking. To hold in this region is, is going to be possible because, that'll be devastating for Iran and for its proxies, for Israel to have or to expand the Abraham Accords with Saudi Arabia, with other countries that'll come along with Saudi Arabia who are, that'll be a devastating thing because then the focus will be more so on Mutual development would be more so on, on infrastructure would be more so on exchange and technology. And so in cases like that, they used to say that if you wanna prevent countries from going to war, make sure that they both mutually have something to lose in that case. And so when you tie them into each other, even, In, the days of old where you wanted to prevent countries from going to war. the king of one country would marry into, The, family of the other. Because now we have family ties. So we're not going to go to war now, we have to figure it out in a different way because now we're family. Now we're family, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to risk now that my family members on that end. We're family. I want to be killed because we're going to war over a piece of land. Let's figure this out in a different way. So what I'm saying is, and the point in regards to that, is that there are other ways that don't include violence. But when you have people who are dedicated to that, again, Hamas does not represent the necessities of the People of Gaza.

Azi: 1:05:58

so let's talk about that for a second. you're in touch with these friends of yours who actually live in

Ashriel: 1:06:03

Gaza. They live in the West Bank, but they have family members in Gaza. And they

Azi: 1:06:06

have family members in Gaza. What are they sharing with you about these past months since October 7th?

Ashriel: 1:06:14

They're, it's hurtful for them to be in war. They don't want it. They believe there is a different way. some of them are angry with Israel. Some are angry with Hamas and the PA. they feel like the Hamas and the PA hasn't done anything for them in all of these years anyways. And, they've just been exploiting them. Just taking, not giving anything. And they would much prefer, as a matter of fact, to come to some type of peaceful resolution with Israel, opposed to always being in war and, fight. Because they believe that they have more to gain by peaceful communication and relationships opposed to always being in war. And as a matter of fact, not only my friends in Gaza, and when you look at the Arab barometer, which is a world, they respected Poland organization in the Arab world. According to that 73 percent of the people in Gaza say that we want to find a solution. We want, we, we want to find a solution with Israel. And so how, why do I say all the time that Hamas doesn't represent the people in Gaza? Not to say that they don't represent them in terms of who voted for them 20 years ago. I don't know. they haven't had elections since 20 years ago, almost.

Azi: 1:07:32

let's just talk about what happens when you even try to vote in a Under such a violent regime,

Ashriel: 1:07:38

it doesn't represent anything. The

Azi: 1:07:40

corruption,

Ashriel: 1:07:41

they beheaded people of the PA, of, in, in Gaza, because they, didn't want to sit in a coalition government with them.

Azi: 1:07:51

So we are talking about a regime that will, where there's, they believe in violence against anyone. It's just conquest. There's no values, you talk about spiritual values, human values, religious values. There is no value for life

Ashriel: 1:08:08

in a situation like that where you have people. Okay, let's go down the line According to the Hamas charter. They say that there is no negotiation with Israel 73 percent of the people in Gaza say that they want to find a solution a peaceful solution 63 percent of the people in Gaza, according to the Barometer, say that their issues are not external issues, but it's Hamas. Internally, it's their issue, because they've been the one who's been misappropriating the monies, all these billions of dollars they've been receiving. They say that they have no, nobody to speak to in regards to their necessities, because Hamas are not interested in what they're talking about. And unless you have some connection high up, then nobody's going to be listening to you. You have about 1 percent of the population who are people of African descent who is residing in Gaza. They feel that they are being oppressed by Hamas. You have another few thousands of Christians who, obviously, their graves have been desecrated, and, The, Their homes have been destroyed and, a whole bunch of other things. Not by us, but Hamas. And you're looking at all these minority groups there, and the majority group of Palestinians there, that they're saying, everybody's saying the same thing. I can understand why, because Hamas is not an organization that represents them. Hamas is an organization that has its own ideology, that has its own desire. They just happened to ride on the wave because they promised something that they couldn't deliver on. And then once they got in the seat of power, it's just okay, we're just gonna We're here now, we finally made It.

Azi: 1:09:42

I think about the children. And that these young men, even teenagers, who, people your age, my age, if 15 years, they were in summer camp, learning to operate automatic weapons. Learning that suicide martyrdom was an ideal. That they could have a street named after them. That their families could inherit millions and millions of dollars. If they were willing to kill an Israeli. They're doing school plays. And in the school play, it's all about murdering the Jews. and vilifying the Jews and dehumanizing Israelis, Jews, completely dehumanizing. And that, to me, is such a sad reality. People start talking about, are there innocents in Gaza what does that even mean? What does innocence even mean? When, from the time a child is born, they are subjected to an ideology. That values killing another group of people more than it values them living.

Ashriel: 1:10:59

I, made a video about that. I don't know if you saw that video. But I was asking how can you hate somebody else so much that you would dedicate all of your It means all of your funds, all of your materials, all of your monies, to consistently trying to kill the other people, opposed to you dedicating that in order to strengthen and to build up your own.

Azi: 1:11:24

I hear these stories about mothers strapping suicide belts on child after child. And as a mother, the worst nightmare, The most painful thing a mother could ever experience, I would think, would be the loss of a child. And how have mothers been robbed of their ability to even love a child, care for a child, cherish their life? And it's, it feels like such an injustice as a mother.

Ashriel: 1:12:02

Our generation, we inherited a lot of things that we didn't want. We didn't ask for, we didn't create, but I think that it's our responsibility to change. Other than that, we're going to pass on a lot of what we experience into the next generation, and I don't think that's a fair thing. A lot of the people who came before us, they were people who were warmongers, who had this idea in their heads that in order to change anything, it always has to be done by force. But we have the ability to be able to do it today by dialogue, by conversation, by mutual understanding. And, even in Dimona, we established an institution called the Dr. Martin Luther King SCLC Ben Ami Institute for New Humanity, where we focus on, non violent approaches to, to solving problems. And one of the things that we focus on is the necessity of coming together. so one of the things that we focus on is the need for healing. The need for actually sitting down and really having a deep and a true and a real conversation with people who don't agree. or who think they don't agree on nothing. Bringing those people together to have a conversation about where is your issue, so we can be able to understand what is your, what is the The, focus or the foundation of your problem, where do you think it lies? Okay, now you. Where does yours lie? huh, okay. And how do you feel? How do you feel? What is it like to be you? What is it like to be you? All these things. You have these conversations. Allow people to be able to express themselves. To say what they feel they need to say. And then most times, I guarantee you most times you will find that we are not that far apart. But we have allowed our differences to be what determines our position opposed to the things that we actually agree on. And so long as we put the focus on where we disagree, we can never even think about where we agree and how we can be able to overcome a lot. Yes, a lot of people are inflicted with trauma, With, hate, with anger, with all these things. The conversation has to start there first, and then we can work our way back to understanding how do we now create an environment that will allow us all to be able to exist in that environment safely, with security, whatever else you want to add to that. But the foundation first would have to be that, I got some stuff I need to get off my chest. I need to say this first of all, before we can go any further, I need to say this to you. It may be, it may sound like you're angry, it may sound like, and you may have a bit of a discussion that may be a bit heated. But then after that, once the person gets that off their chest, now they're willing to hear. Because they haven't been heard for too long. So you don't know how a person feels, what a person thinks, until you hear from them what they feel and how they think. We have gotten to a point where we'd like to dictate for other people what they feel and how they think based on how we feel and how we think.

Azi: 1:15:47

What, what makes us feel better? And what makes us feel better? How can we justify reality? If it seems too difficult to change, if it's too painful to face our past, to face our mistakes, let's just justify it.

Ashriel: 1:16:02

That's what's been done. That's the easiest thing to do. So we have a responsibility, Ozzy, and the responsibility starts with us, first of all, and really opening some of those wounds that nobody wants to, open because once we open those wounds and we're able to discuss these things. You can't just clean the table and just act like they, there was never anything there. We have to acknowledge something sometimes that we don't want to acknowledge. And then move forward from there. Understand, okay, yes, some things may have happened. To you, to your family members, and to me. But what do we do now? Do we continue to live there? Or do we now work together in order to ensure that The people coming behind us wouldn't have to experience what we had to experience. That's leadership. That's vision.

1:16:56

Thank you so much for joining us on today's episode. Be sure to follow estriol on Instagram. He's at instagram.com backslash Ushri Elmore. That's a S H R I E L M O O R E. Be sure to follow humanity POV as well. We're on Instagram. Uh, humanity POV as well as Facebook and ex. All of these links and more about the conversation are in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time.

Shure MV7-14: 1:17:29

To learn more artist support our growing movement. You can visit tiny url.com. Backslash humanity, POV movement. That's tiny url.com. Backslash humanity, POV movement. Thank you so much for tuning in.